tv The Last Word MSNBC August 21, 2013 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT
out in your mind. right now, it is time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell, have a great night. wayne lapierre says the only way to protect children in their schools is with a gun. well, it is not the only way. meet antoinette tuft. >> he said that no one loved him. and i told him that i loved him and that it was going to be okay. >> the school employee in georgia talking down a gunman. >> and that it would be okay. >> the man armed with 800 rounds of ammunition. >> more than 800 students had to be evacuated. >> tuft talked to the gunman, convincing him to surrender. >> to get him to talk to me, and open up. >> and now this, the college
athlete murdered in oklahoma. >> the young athlete has been murdered. >> three teens have been charged. >> this is not something we've seen here. >> we are the most gun-crazy nation on the planet, unfortunately. >> what will this mean for the national gun debate control? >> the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. >> after spending millions campaigning against a national gun registry. >> the registry of guns. >> leading to a registry. >> it is not paranoia. >> law-abiding people don't want that. >> it is wednesday, august the 21st. >> and america simply can't end our deadly love affair with guns. >> yesterday, the mcnair elementary school in decatur, georgia, saw a man walk in with
500 rounds of ammunition. he started shooting. well, there is only one way the story could end. wayne lapierre told us so. seven days after a 20-year-old man with a semiautomatic weapon walked into a school in connecticut and killed 26 people. >> the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun security is only available with properly trained good guys. >> it has 780 students, and it was not a guy who was properly trained that saved them. it was antoinette tuft, the school bookkeeper, she was behind a locked door when the man slipped in, had been buzzed in. antoinette described her first
encounter with the shooter. >> he came in with the gun drawn, he said i'm not playing, this is for real, this is not for show. he had a look on him, that he was willing to kill. as a matter of fact, he said it. >> antoinette knew she had to keep the man occupied. at this point, the school was on lockdown, and police were on scene. she called the 911, and the 911 call released today captured what happened in the final 14 minutes of the encounter. >> what is the emergency? >> yes, ma'am, i'm on second avenue in the school and the gentleman said tell him to back off, he is going to start shooting so tell him to back off. >> do not let anybody in the building -- including the police. do not let anybody in the building, including the police.
>> okay, stay on the line with me now. where are you? >> i'm in the front office. >> he just went inside and started shooting. where can i run? >> can you get somewhere safe? >> yeah, i got to go. he is going to see me next. oh, hold on. >> put the phone down. >> antoinette did put the phone down, but she did not hang up the phone, she stayed on the line with 911. she later told reporters that the gunman ran out of ammunition when he fired those shots. he came back in the office and started to reload in front of her with ammunition he brought in a book bag. 500 rounds of ammunition, according to police. but with no weapon, antoinette, completely unarmed, continued to try to talk him down. >> he said he should have just went to the mental hospital instead of doing this.
because he is not on his medication. you want my to -- >> i can help you, you want me to talk to them? okay, well, let me talk to them and let's see if we can work it out so you don't have to go away with them for a long time. he didn't hit anybody, let me ask you this, ma'am, he didn't hit anybody, he just shot outside the door, if i walk out there with him so they won't shoot him or anything like that. he said he just want to go to the hospital. >> okay. >> she said -- >> hold on one moment. >> she said hold on, he is going to talk to the police officer, now go out there with you. put it all up there. >> he put the weapon down?
>> yeah. >> so hold on before you come, he is putting everything down. he is going to get on the floor. so tell him to hold on a minute. so let him get everything together. he is getting it altogether. okay, tell me when you're ready, and i'll tell him to come on in. we're not going to hurt you, baby, it is a good thing that you have given up. we're not going to hate you. >> ma'am, you're doing a great job. so let's do it before the helicopters and stuff like that come. you hear them? >> yes. >> okay. so -- you want to go ahead and you want me to tell them to come on in now? he is getting everything out of his pockets now. >> okay. >> okay, he said the gunman wants you to know that, do y'all want him to take his belt off? >> yeah, that is fine, just take all his weapons off. >> okay, she said that is fine, just take all the weapons off. he said he don't have no more
weapons. he is on the ground now with his hands behind the back, tell the officers don't come in shooting or anything, tell them to come on in, and i'll buzz them in. hold on and i'll buzz them in so you know when they're coming okay? okay. so just stay there calm, don't worry about it. i'm going to sit here so you can see they're not trying to harm me, okay? >> okay. >> okay. it's going to be all right, sweetheart, i just want you to know that i love you, though, okay, and i'm proud of you. that is a good thing that you're just giving up and don't worry bit. we all go through something in life. >> and here is what happened in the final 90 seconds, when the bad guy with a gun was stopped by a good woman without one. >> you stay right there. you fired. you said he want him to go out there with his hands up? >> stay right where he is. >> okay, she said stay right where you are.
he wants to know if he can get some of his water right quick. you said michael hill, right? yes, michael. guess what, michael? my last name is hill, too, you know, my mom was a hill. he said what are y'all waiting for? what is taking them so long to come on? >> okay, one moment. >> she says she is getting to them now, they're coming. they're coming. so just hold on, michael. go ahead and lay down. go ahead and lay down. don't put the phone -- okay, you just got the phone. okay, that is fine. tell him to come on, come on. okay, he just got his phone, that is all he got is the phone. >> do not move. >> it is just him. okay. it is just him. hello? yeah.
i'm going to tell you something, babe, i was scared for my life. >> but you did great. >> oh, jesus! >> you did great. >> oh, god. >> joining me now or msnbc's krystal ball, "the guardian's" anna marie cox. frank, this is a scene that wayne lapierre said we would never see. >> lawrence, i think antoinette tuff puts the national rifle association and dirty harry all to shame. they pedalled this myth that only a guy with a gun can stop a guy with a gun.
and this proves that is not the case. there are times when the shooter needs to be stopped. there are very few actual cases that that occurred. and this demonstrates the public safety in our schools that needs to be talked about. >> and krystal, police were on scene fast enough. and they were on the scene fast enough to go in there with guns and intervene, and we have no idea what would have happened if they had. >> right, that is exactly right. and god bless antoinette tuff, what an incredible woman. we can't always count on there being an antoinette tuff to be in the school, to be able to make that call. it is unfortunate, that we have a system where guns are so prevalent, where they have proliferated so much in our society, that they can show up, a mentally disturbed person with an ak-47, and have to rely on
this, for those children, just an unbelievable situation. >> anna marie, the nra has made sure that the aspiring murderers are equipped with the weapons, such as he had in the school. >> they want to make antoinette tuff as effective. also, if teachers are in that kind of negotiation and that kind of way of talking to students, that does a lot of good in other situations. not just talking down a gunman. >> i was looking at the national education statistics. it is true that schools are one place in our lives that the presence of guns are decreasing, measures such as metal detectors, and schools are
reporting that they are more safe. >> the background, the shooter, michael hill, carrying an ak-47, two bags of ammunition, a rifle, he has prior felony arrests, threatened to shoot his brother, he is on three year's probation. and frank, this is the kind of guy who the nra says oh, we don't want to have a gun. but he has shown us how easily it is for his criminal record, with his mental instability to get his hands on whatever he wants. >> and on top of that, i've been monitoring the nra twitter feeds. and they have said next to nothing about this case. it doesn't fit within their world view, that they can't process it. they are saying absolutely nothing or next to nothing about this particular incident that has the attention of the rest of the nation. because they have no response.
they don't know what to say. >> and krystal, if this had been the worse case scenario, and we saw 26 bodies or more coming out of that school, you know, we would obviously bring a kind of saturation coverage, all the cable news channels would have stopped. as soon as i heard that this was stopped, nobody was harmed, i thought we have to bring as much attention to this in this program tonight as we would if some of those kids in that school had not survived. >> that is exactly right. and not only should we bring attention to it on the platforms we have. but we also need to pressure the legislators in the way that we did after sandy hook. i mean, it is unbelievable that we couldn't even pass a background check bill in the wake of sandy hook. >> you know, for the parents in that school today, it is something of a miracle. it is luck that their kids came
home safely. >> it is luck, i guess i do believe in providence. i don't believe it was just luck. it sounds to me like there was a reason that antoinette tuff was there. this is what we need to train teachers in. this is what -- if the nra wanted to use sandy hook as an excuse to say we needed to train teachers and arm them and shield our schools with weapons, what we need is teachers who know how to talk to people, administrators who need to know how to talk to people. this is the thing that could actually save more lives because it would not put more weapons into the equation. >> and frank, it shows that there is a kind of empowerment you can bring to school administrators and teachers in situations like this, without them strapping guns on their hips. >> absolutely, if you have armed guards with the teachers in schools, it creates a terrible environment for learning, and undermines the goals you're trying to achieve. and divides the community.
what anna marie said, they have teachers that should be able to talk through and avoid violence and cool things down, as opposed to escalating them. that is something the nra doesn't understand. >> and the video, showing the parents getting their schools today, is that a guy was in the school with 500 rounds. he had no trouble getting that. he had a weapon that could have wiped out hundreds of kids. he was in there, and you know, it is something of a miracle that those kids were able to go home. how can you feel good as a parent? well, there was a gunman in there today, but he didn't kill anybody, so let's all just go back to school in this happy country where a gunman gets to walk into school. >> that is exactly right, any sense of safety that the parents had before has certainly been shattered. because there is nothing to keep
another person, another mentally ill person from bringing another ak-47, and ammunition into a school with 500 rounds of ammunition. and as anna marie said, thank god that antoinette tuff was there, but we should not have to rely on having that kind of person in the school, and having to rely on that. >> these parents could have been mobilized. >> yes, krystal ball, anna marie cox, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. coming up, wayne lapierre was actually right when he warned gun owners about a huge data base that was tracking everyone in america who owned a gun. but he did not warn them that the nra was keeping that data base themselves. we have the reporter who exposed the nra's big data on gun owners, coming up. and later, the american journalist who appeared on
russian tv to talk about bradley manning and then refused to talk about anything but russia's oppressive anti-gay laws. and the son of the man who inspired the film, lee daniels, "the butler" will join me on the screenwriting of that film. for the first time... ever... she let him plan the vacation. "off the beaten path"... he said. "trust me"... he implored. alas, she is beginning to seriously wonder... why she ever doubted... the booking genius. planet earth's number one accomodation site: booking.com booking.yeah!
>> a military judge sentenced bradley manning to 35 years in prison for his role in leaking thousands of documents to wikileaks. keir simmons was with his mother when she learned of the sentence. >> bradley manning's attorney says that with credit for time served and good behavior, bradley manning could be out of
prison in seven years. up next, wayne lapierre and the nra once warned that if the government created a list of gun owners it could be hacked by the chinese. but he didn't say what would happen if the nra created a list of gun owners, who might hack that. and the nra has done exactly that. and the reporter who broke the story joins me next. i am today by luck. i put in the hours and built a strong reputation in the industry. i set goals and worked hard to meet them. i've made my success happen. so when it comes to my investments, i'm supposed to just hand it over to a broker and back away?
that's not gonna happen. avo: when you work with a schwab financial consultant, you'll get the guidance you need with the control you want. talk to us today. "stubborn love" by the lumineers did you i did. email? so what did you think of the house? did you see the school ratings? oh, you're right. hey babe, i got to go. bye daddy! have a good day at school, ok? ...but what about when my parents visit? ok. i just love this one... and it's next to a park. i love it. i love it too. here's our new house... daddy! you're not just looking for a house. you're looking for a place for your life to happen. it's going to be people like you and me. that is who their checks will be. that is what they're after. the names of good, decent people all over this great country who happen to own a firearm. to go into a federal data base
for universal registration of every lawful gun owner in america. >> wayne lapierre was right about trying to put together a list of ever lawful gun owner in america, but it is not the federal government trying to compile that list. it is the nra itself, they have been compiling the largest data base of current, former and prospective gun owners in the united states. it has been built for years through the state and county offices, gathering of new owners by the gun safety classes taught by the nra teachers. and by the list of attendees at the gun show. to subscribers and more. to date, the big power house that has deployed the tactics all year round that the obama campaign used to win two presidential elections.
when buzzfeed asked the nra what it is doing with the data, an nra spokesperson replied "that is not any of your business." joining me now, steve friess, who wrote that article. steve, how did you dig this one up? >> well, you know, the big question that he keeps coming -- keeps coming up whenever we talk about gun legislation, how does an association that has nearly 3 million members, it is 3 to 4 million people, how does a group of 3 to 4 million people have this kind of influence, the ability to shut down legislation that has such overwhelming public spurt? and the answer is data. the answer is that they have collected the information on people, and they know how to
activate many, many times the number of people who are actually members of their organization. and you know, they go into a congressman's office. they go into a city council office or a state legislator's office and they lay it out. they show exactly who they know. and they know that they are voters who will respond to their message. and they have tested the message. they have a very sophisticated message. >> and steve, this list has been put together without the knowledge of the people on these lists. >> yeah, i mean, one of the things that is interesting about my day today has been looking at twitter. and seeing people thinking well, of course, members of the nra are on that list. so there are also thousands, probably millions of people who are required by law if they want to have a concealed carry permit to take safety classes. and by and large, those safety classes are taught by nra instructors.
that is not the same as going to take a safety class. these are people out in the world, far larger than the number of volunteers that president obama had in his campaign. there are a lot of people out there teaching these classes. and in many cases, the law requires you take the class from an nra instructor. it was an honest to goodness organization that was focused on teaching people how to use guns safely. >> i want to read something that ted cruz said about such a registry. in my judgment, the registry, the government keeping a list of firearms that are owned by the law abiding citizen would be terrible policy and would be inconsistent with the constitution. no word tonight on what ted cruz thinks of the nra putting together that list themselves. >> and the nra is not talking
about this either. and even in that community, people are not sure what to make of it. this is a difficult story for the nra to explain to its base, especially the libertarian base, that is afraid of any list of any kind. they're afraid of big brother, but the nra is playing a big brother role by collecting this data. one thing that is, if it exists in any form, the nra could hack into it. it could be obtained by people outside of their organization. so this is really a very dangerous story for the gun lobby and one that they wish to go away. and steve, you've done a great job. >> and steve, even beyond the hacking question, the list in certain forms of litigation would be subject to subpoena, other parties could get their hands on it for various reasons,
in foreseeable roles, they are not members of the nra. they don't want to get their names on the list of gun owners. the privacy a lot of them think they have doesn't actually exist. the nra has taken away that privacy. >> well, and that is the point. i mean, if you join the nra you probably give them the right to do whatever they need to with your data. and in fact, other people said well, are there companies? google, whoever it is, they all have this data, too. but the fact is at least in some probably fake way, but nonetheless, some legally binding way, you click accept when you start to use an app on your phone. nobody reads all that stuff. but you do give permission. in this case you have people who have no idea that they're in this data base. and they probably have no control over it either. today, i was kind of being asked if people could call the nra and ask them to get their names off the list. i'm suspecting the nra will pretend they don't have it. >> steve friess and frank smith,
thank you for joining us. coming up, charles allen, who was the son of the man who inspired the film by lee daniels "the butler" will join me and talk about his feelings while watching that film. way? first wait till summer. then get the cars ready. now add the dodge part. ♪ the dodge summer clearance event. right now get 0% financing for up to 72 months and no payments for 90 days on all dodge vehicles. see, i knew testosterone could affect sex drive, but not energy or even my mood. that's when i talked with my doctor. he gave me some blood tests... showed it was low t. that's it. it was a number.
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years, eugene allen became invaluable. here is now nancy reagan, played by jane fonda, chose to express her gratitude. >> you're very popular, everyone says you're the man who got the raise and promotion. i had no idea. >> i wish i could take credit for that. >> i would like to invite you to the state dinner next week. >> i'm going to be there, mrs. reagan. >> no, not as a butler, cecil, i'm inviting you as a guest. >> but the president prefers for me to serve in person. >> don't you worry about ronnie, i'll take care of that. so we'll see you next week, you and your wife.
>> my wife? >> it is gloria, yeah? >> yes, ma'am. >> the movie spans a period of dramatic change in america, profound generational changes in black america. eugene allen and his family had to struggle with the challenges of the times on the street and at the dinner table. >> what is the name of that movie, honey? >> in the heat of the night. >> of the night, with sidney poitier. >> he is a white man's fantasy of what he wants us to be. >> what are you talking about? >> he just won the academy award, he is breaking barriers. >> he is nothing but a rich uncle tom. look at you, all puffed up, with your hat on your head, saying whatever you want. you're free to go.
get the hell out of my house? i'm sorry mr. butler, i didn't mean to make fun of your hero! >> everything you are and everything you have is because of that butler. >> joining me now, charles allen, son of former white house butler eugene allen, and emmy award winning screenwriting. charles, i have to ask you, what was it like for you watching this film, this depiction of your father? >> it was great, danny spent a lot of time with us. that is one of the things that i was happy about, he actually got to meet my father and talk with him extensively and with myself. and a lot of these things, he has pretty accurately captured the contention, a lot of the contention that was between my dad and i. my dad, being a very
conservative person, and myself, of a more liberal bent. >> charles, talk a minute about where you -- where your conversations with your father, where would they be now if he was still with us, and now that you're an older man and you have a perspective on your youth, and you have a perspective on what your father went through and what america has gone through during your lifetime? >> the older i became, the more i came around to my father's way of thinking. you know, i thought like the man in the picture, i thought i knew everything. i think my father, now, we would be more like-minded in this way we looked at things. we were both happy about, you know, president obama's ascendancy. you know, unfortunately, my mother missed that.
you know, my father would be thrilled. you know, a lot of things that are going on now he could have never realized. i remember how happy he was when charles gettons became the special agent in charge of the secret service. i remember how happy he was when colin powell came down to the white house. and he said you know, they got a young man there now, he is going places. but this whole thing about obama becoming president, he couldn't have imagined it until it actually happened. >> and he did live to see that. >> yes, he did, we went to the inauguration. very arduous experience for him. >> tell us why. >> well, we had to walk about -- anybody here can remember it was something like a biblical movement, an exodus. and the subway let us off about a mile from the capital.
and my father was, i think, 89 years old at the time. and it was very hard on him. and he had to stop and rest. and will haygood was with us, my wife, they were assisting me. and he said no, he said let me rest. i'm going on. but we made it. we did, we made it up to the capital. and we got up to the orange section, which is right up there in front of the podium. and you know, just some of the looks that he gave me in watching that. you know, when president obama was coming down the hall we realized that it was really going to happen. and he just looked at me. you know, he was not a man of a lot of words. it was just the way he looked at me that i know, he was fulfilled. >> yeah, it was an unforgettable place in that day. i think i was located not far from you in that crowd.
danny strong, you had at first nothing to go on but a "washington post" article, and i remember reading that day. oh, this is fascinating, the butler who has been there for 34 years. you come upon the article and you see a movie? >> yeah, it was actually -- our great producer, a real legend in the business. she brought it into me, and said do you think you can turn this into a movie? i thought i have no idea how to do this. but there is a very special movie in here if i could just figure it out. and i knew it was something i had to try to do. >> and you were going to have to do it as a historian reporter before you got play screenwriter. you had to sit down with the family members and get a much fuller story than what you could get out of a newspaper article. >> that is right, it is so wonderful being here on the show with charles allen, because we spent so much time together all of those years ago. and now we have a movie, and i
spent a lot of time with charles, i got to interview eugene allen, which was really a great honor, and then i got to interview other people at the white house, as well. other butlers, chief engineers. and i just got so many other wonderful stories. i thought well, i got to get all the wonderful stories into the movies. it is just so good. >> and charles, we don't often realize how our parents are regarded in their work place because we don't get to be in there so much and see them. when you were growing up and before danny was able to tell this story in the full way that he has, did you have a real sense of how your father was regarded by the presidents, and by others in the white house? >> yes, absolutely. absolutely. i knew that he was revered by his co-workers. he -- he got what he gave. in all of the presidents, people
would ask him, he would say who was your favorite president? and he would say, i liked all of them. and he really did. he found something in each of the presidents that he liked. and i think these people could pick that up. and those films were reciprocated. i know -- i think of mrs. ford, the ford family. mrs. ford was an absolute sweetheart. i mean, she used to call our father on his birthday and wish him a happy birthday. he and mrs. ford shared the same birthday. just some of the things that would slip out of him, about the first families and it was really fascinating. >> how often did he bring work home? i mean, was it a common thing at the dinner table. an interesting thing happened in the white house today. >> no, lawrence, if you have will recall in the movie, they have a code at the white house. and you know, you're not supposed to come and divulge information about the families
and stuff. and that worked very well for my father, because he was a very private person anyway. and so he would -- but you know, my father was also human and he would say things. but as far as a running log about what was going on at the white house, no, he didn't do that. i wanted to ask, but also he never -- he never came in and cut one of the first families and the dignitaries or any people he worked with. not one day. >> danny, often in this kind of work, when you get the work out there more information will come to you by somebody who says oh, i knew this. had you been picking up little nuggets? >> yeah, actually i had a special moment at one of our screenings where a woman came up to me and she was in other 70s. and she said nobody has ever thanked me. so thank you.
it was so important to people who fought in the civil rights movement and to have somebody who was actually there see the movie and appreciate it was fantastic. and to have charles allen, who called me after the first time and feel proud of it. charles is one of those people where he lived it. you know, you want them to be happy. so it was a really wonderful feeling. >> that was your most important review. charles. danny strong, and charles allen, thank you both for joining me tonight. >> thank you, lawrence, and thank you again, danny. >> thank you, charles. coming up. >> a lesson in how to be a guest on a russian tv talk show by a man who was kicked off the show for what he insisted on saying about russia's anti-gay law. it starts with something little, like taking a first step.
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lawyer, received a license 72 days after closing on her wyoming house in may 2012, but state law requires that residents live in the state for a full year before being eligible for a resident license. cheney released this statement tonight where she kind of -- i don't know, blamed sean hannity and blamed the clerk. on august 2012, i spent the day on the snake river with the wounded warriors and the wounded recovery mission. i had arranged sean hannity to film the mission for a segment he later aired on fox news. the clerk asked if i was a resident. i said yes, because i was living in wyoming. it was my mistake not to realize there was a 365-day requirement to hold a resident license of the the clerk did not ask how long i had lived in wyoming. well, i guess we'll just have to take her word for that about the clerk. liz cheney currently trails her opponent, incumbent republican
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>> james, let me ask you the same -- the same question. >> yeah, well, harvey is a very famous american. he said being here on a kremlin propaganda network, i'm going to wear my gay pride and speak out against the horrific legislation that was passed by putin, that criminalizes homosexual propaganda, essentially making it illegal to talk about homosexuality in public. >> what about bradley manning, first? >> i am not really interested in talking about bradley manning, i'm interested in talking about the horrific environment of homophobia in russia right now, and to let the russians know that they have solidarity all over the world, and we are not
going to participate in this by vladimir putin. that is what i'm here to talk about. i don't know who how as a journalist you can sleep at night, and know that journalists are routinely harassed, and how you can go to sleep at sunlight. >> come over here and see for yourself. >> everyone on this network should be ashamed of yourself. and they should cover what is happening in russia. you should cover the horrific abuse. >> we're waiting for the verdict. >> you know, you have 24 hours a day to lie about the united states and to ignore what is happening in russia. you have 24 minutes to do that. i am going to take mine and tell people the truth. >> absolutely, are you ready to have a conversation about bradley manning right now with the panel that we've put together? >> rt has been bradley manning, 24/of, i didn't see anything on
your network about the anti-gay laws passed in russia, the violence and hostility against gay people. where is the coverage of that? >> james, last week we held a discussion about the laws. i think you will find it very informative, and you -- >> you can't say what -- they can't make these comments on russian television. they can write them in a russian newspaper but can't hold a demonstration in russian squares. >> james kerchek will be my guest right here tomorrow night and he most definitely will get the last word. otherworldly thi. but there are some things i've never seen before. this ge jet engine can understand 5,000 data samples per second.
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>> the junior senator from texas, ted cruz, continues his crusade against funding the affordable care act. but texas governor rick perry now wants $100 million of the funding that ted cruz wants to kill. the affordable care act funding and he wants that directed to texas. he claims to be just as opposed
as ted cruz is, but now he is looking at obtaining medicaid funding from the affordable care act for texas. and ari melber is shocked, right? you're just stunned. >> it is stunning. the saddest part of the article in "politico," reporting that if this is actually discussed, perry may back out. >> two minutes left in the show. >> so we're not helping. >> let's talk about it, or something else. we're not supposed to discuss it because this will be bad for the people of texas if perry doesn't vote for this medicaid funding. >> and i think republicans, which is sad, they are even aware of it. their argument is yeah, we don't want any money for our people to have this health care.
you have money in the program, more than some expected given that republicans claimed they would go against it. and several more, according to the advisory board account that are close to coming in. i actually think it is relatively fast -- >> it is optional, the supreme court made it optional. the bill that was supposed to be mandatory. and my feeling was, any republican governor who wants to run for president will not be able to take obama care medicaid money. >> right, and that will be the most direct, dispotive proof that they are looking beyond their states and constituents. >> and we saw jan brewer, struggling, ending up going for the obama care money. >> there will be republicans who are replaced over the issue. because not everyone is running for president. and over time it gets hard to explain to your state why you should raise their taxes while denying them medicaid/medicare programs.
part of obama care only subsidized it. didn't change it. just subsidized it. >> ari melber, the closer, gets tonight's last word. cruising for a bruisen? let's play "hardball." ♪ >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. tonight, invasion of the body snatchers. the soul of a major american political party is suddenly up for grabs. party of lincoln and the emancipation proclamation of theodore roosevelt and the american conservation movement. the party of ronald ration who signed the deal with -- that eliminates nuclear weapons could be going ballistic. ted cruz talks in brinksmanship